From: RAY.DYKE@omhbbs.org (ray dyke) Subject: Philmont Tips Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 11:05:03 GMT S>> 1. Is the 1995 season already reserved, or are there still spots S>> available? My understanding from 2 phone calls to Philmont is that 1995 was all "reserved" by April 1994, with a waiting list of THOUSANDS of spaces in groups who asked for 1995 dates but did not "win" in the lottery. Many groups who are already on the waiting list, will probably get to go as payment deadlines come and go. Groups were expected to pay a small down payment in Spring 1994 but the "major money" is not due for many months. A group that defaults a payment deadline will lose its space and it will be offered to some other group on the waiting list. A group that has *not* made any reservation yet will most likely *not* get to go in 1995. The only possible (unofficial) slack may be in the end-of-season dates in August, where "short" expeditions are planned. S>> 2. What treks should they apply for? The boys (ages 13 - 15) S>> and leaders are all novices when it comes to Philmont and S>> have never been before. You don't apply for a trek (hike route) until well after your group's DATE is reserved and accepted. In the past, the "itinerary plan cards" are mailed out in the winter with the "PEAKS" crew leader books, and due back at Philmont in the spring. Crews apply for their top 5 choices of itineraries, and normally get one of the top 3 choices. Treks range from "typical" (50 miles) to strenuous (80 miles) or more. The shorter treks include more time in program areas and less hiking. If the group has a lot of fast hikers who can handle 10-12 miles per day (30-40 pound packs, elevation 6000 to 12000 feet, highly mixed weather) then they may be able to handle a longer trek. Since we live near the (Smoky) mountains, we can do a lot of wilderness hiking here, so we generally aim for the shorter hikes at Philmont, to maximize program. Age is a factor, but not as much as hiking experience. Hiking a mile with a full pack at Philmont is probably the exercise equivalent of running (jogging) a mile on level ground at sea level. S>> 3. What camping and hiking preparations should they make before S>> going - to prepare themselves for their trek? Of course the best practice is backpack hiking at high altitudes. One of the Philmont publications for 1993 suggested being able to walk/run about five miles several times a week. That may be more than needed, but there is no doubt that the everyone in the group must be in good physical condition. It's not an "equal opportunity" event, and those with too much weight (me), high blood pressure, any disease that might prevent a person from running track or playing football, those are all good indicators that a person would have problems in the backcountry at Philmont. Some conditions will keep you off the trail, others will just get advice (and probably slow down the group). Philmont has been changing its camping practices frequently over the years. We have done 10 expeditions since 1960, and have seen many different rules and techniques. In 1993 they did not wash dishes, but poured a little water in the dirty dishes and drank the water (ugh!). In 1989 they made the boys EAT ASHES from the fire. In 1975 chemical stoves were prohibited. In 1993 they were required. Etc. Find a group that is out there THIS summer (1994) and get them to help plan your unit's training program for 1995 or 1996. It's really helpful. Someone who was there several years ago may not know the current rules. In our troop the "goal" is to have about one backpack hike each month starting in January, so we get in about six overnight hikes in the six months leading up to Philmont. These are open to the whole troop, except perhaps the last "dress rehearsal" which is Philmont only. Then we normally take our last prep hike in the Rocky Mountain National Park (northwest from Denver) on the way to Philmont, to get accustomed to altitude over 10,000 feet and very dry air. S>> 4. What is a rough estimate for cost, leaving from Houston? Your council may already have a trip scheduled and may have a full budget and all that stuff. Check with them, since whatever thy are charging is probably not far from what your troop will charge. You do not have to go with your council, but you might want to. The 1995 Philmont fee is about $350 per person, including all food and program (and part of the group gear) for the 12+ days the group is on the ranch. Call it $30.00 per person/day, approximately. Find someone with a van or minibus large enough to carry the group (and gear) so your only mobility cost is gasoline and consumables. From Houston to Raton, it's 700-1000 miles one way, depending on side trips (check any Rand-McNally or AAA Road Atlas) so figure on under 2000 miles (unless you want a *major* side trip). Gas might cost 10-15 cents per mile, or $200 to $300, plus other vehicle stuff, so you might want to budget $400 or more. Add van rental (mileage) if needed. People on the road can eat food that costs $10.00 per day or $30.00 per day, depending on preferences and time. Your overnight stopovers could be free (national parks) or Holiday Inn at $150.00 per room (divide based on occupancy). We like KOA style campgrounds, about $30.00 for the group per night. If the adults have an extra week vacation (3 weeks total; rare) then you can plan some nice side trips, like the Grand Canyon or the Tetons or Salt Lake. If the adults have only 2 weeks, then your group will probably go directly to Philmont and back again. Here are some possible (approx) numbers you can share with them... One Person Group of 6 Group of 12 Philmont Fees $350.00 $2100.00 $4200.00 Personal Gear 200.00* 1200.00 2400.00 Group Gear 35.00 200.00 300.00 Food en route 100.00** 600.00 1200.00 Six Flags Dallas 30.00 180.00 360.00 Gas and Van Fluids 25.00*** 400.00 400.00 Miscellaneous 10% 75.00 --------- --------- --------- Possible Totals $850.00 $4500.00 $8000.00 (Approximate!) * Most Scouts in a backpacking troop already own most of the gear, but there *WILL* be some things each person will need to buy, so this personal gear figure will vary. See Philmont Guidebook. ** Food en route: Perhaps 6 days at about $16.00 per day, which is a low average based on grocery stores rather than restaurants. ***Gas and fluids would cost the same for 6 or 12 if the same van is used. But you don't need a van for just 6 people. Philmont may require minimum group size of 6, 7, or 8. Call them to ask. Most council trips from 1000 miles away will probably cost $700-$800 per person in 1995 and 1996. Hard to predict, of course. This would not include any of the personal gear. Add $100 for a physical exam, since a real complete physical is required for Philmont (not just the 3-year rule at some summer camps). Add pocket personal spending money. $10.00 to $1,000 depending on how many souvenirs are ordered by family. Campers spend an average of $80.00 in the Philmont trading posts. Then there is the tour... And, of course, add a couple of 29-cent stamps so the boys can write home, and maybe $10.00 for laundry. $1000 per person is not too far from the actual total cost. Sorry if that sounds frightening, but it's realistic. I'm telling our families to figure on a group cost of $800 per person plus personal gear (if they don't have it) and a full physical exam. This is for 1996, really too far in the future to be sure. Hope this helps. We've done a lot of trips to Philmont, and these numbers are realistic for us. Your mileage may vary, as the EPA says. -------------------------------------- From: olan.watkins@chrysalis.org Subject: 1995 PHILMONT SCHEDULE Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 12:51:59 Philmont Training Center 1995 Schedule June 12-17 Key 3, Administration of Commissioner Service, Unit commissioner, District Committee, Council Key 3, Training Management Seminar, Urban Emphasis. June 19-24 Boy Scout Leader Training, Boy Scout Advancement, Scoutmaster Basic Camping Skills, Order of the Arrow, Outdoor Skills Instructor, Boy Scout Roundtables, Conservation, Trail Boss, National Junior Leader Instructor Camp. June 26 - July 1 Boy Scout Leader Training, Boy Scout Advancement, Scoutmaster Basic Camping Skills, Boy Scout Camping and Outdoors, Outdoor Skills Instructor, Venture/Varsity Programs for Older Scouts, Working with Junior Leaders, National Junior Leader Instructor Camp. July 2-7 L.D.S. Conference July 10-15 Scouting as a Youth Ministry, Scouting in the Catholic Church, Scouting Serves the Jewish Community, Membership/Relationships Committee, United Methodist Scouter's Workshop, Exploring. July 17-22 Cub Scout Roundtable Planning, Cub Scout Outdoor Program, Training Cub Scout Leaders, Cub Scouting in the District and Council, Cub Scout Pow Wow Leadership, Developing Cub Scout Trainers. July 24-29 Webelos Scout Program, Den Leader Theme Workshop, Family Camping Skills, Cub Scout Growth, Strictly for Cubmasters, Training Cub Scout Leaders, Cub Scout Resident Camp. July 31-August 5 Endowment Seminar, SME, Learning for Life, Boy Scout Leader Training, Fiscal Management, Working with Jr Leaders, Council Management by Computer, Jr Leader Instructor Camp. August 7-12 Key 3, Administration of Commissioner Service, Unit Commissioner, District committee, Special Needs (Handicapped), Training Management Seminar. August 14-19 Key 3, Administration of Commissioner Service, Unit commissioner, District Committee, Health and Safety/Risk Management, Training Management, Council/District Activities.